Recommendations for road e-bike

I've had a Cube Agree road bike with Fazua for 4 years and have had zero problems.

I really like the system and am planning to buy a Boardman with Fazua to use as a winter bike.

Horses for courses ... of course .... but also, the right steed for the rider.

There are now many types of e-bike, with a wide variety of styles, features and performances. The trick, when buying one, is to know what you really want from such a bike. These days, it's often quite difficult to sort out one's true wants & needs from all of the advertising and social media memes the rascals implant in our poor overheated brains!

Some considerations:

Bike weight is not so much an issue when riding the e-bike, as the heavier items tend to have motors with more torque and batteries with a greater capacity. But a heavy e-bike can be a real problem if you have to lift it ... to bring it into a house or flat with steps; on to a car carrier or even up and down the steps from your bike shed to the road. Once a bike gets to 20 kg or more, you'll struggle unless you're a big strong 'un.

Battery removal is often necessary if you need to store your bike where there's no means of charging it; or you have to get the bike indoors to charge it rather than just taking the battery. Storing batteries in the bike in a very cold or very hot shed can also become an issue as temperature extremes affect batteries in various ways. Easy battery removal ability is useful.

Battery capacity need only cater to your longest ride between charging opportunities. A 250 watt-hour battery is generally good enouigh for rides of at least 60k ... a lot longer if you're just wanting assistance from the motor rather than for the e-bike to be more of a motorbike activated by pedal turning. Larger batteries are heavier but also consume twice the materials used to make them. As do heavier e-bikes. They're less "green". if that matters to you.

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"Cycling" is a broad church. There are lots of motives, styles and reasons for riding bikes, including the e-variety. It's important when choosing one to know how you'll actually use it and what aspects of it will be most important to you. It's all too easy to think of advertser's "reasons" you should have one rather than your own reasons - your own motives and style for cycling. 

For example, do you need the most powerful motor with the highest battery capacity or is this just being persuaded by the advert that "bigger is always better"? Many now choose a 2 ton SUV as their family transport, for example, when what they really would be suited with is a much smaller and less powerful transporter that costs half as much to buy and run, is less polluting and doesn't induce feelings of drivist superiority. 

In short, best to avoid image triumphing over substance when buying anything, including an e-bike.

If you think that I'm "triumphing over substance" you couldn't be further from the truth.

I really don't know why you are lecturing me. My bikes do what I need them to do.

I needed bikes that could cope with 40mile commute, and 60 to 100 mile road rides.

I also found that the Fauza system *wasn't right for me*. Your post reads like you have taken that as a personal affront on behalf of Fauza owners everywhere.

Thats up to you.
I've not said anything bad about the system, it just didn't do what I need it to do.
But ... it obviously does what *you* need it to do.

Thanks though, for telling me my personal experience is wrong.

Oldfatgit wrote:

If you think that I'm "triumphing over substance" you couldn't be further from the truth. I really don't know why you are lecturing me. My bikes do what I need them to do. I needed bikes that could cope with 40mile commute, and 60 to 100 mile road rides. I also found that the Fauza system *wasn't right for me*. Your post reads like you have taken that as a personal affront on behalf of Fauza owners everywhere. Thats up to you. I've not said anything bad about the system, it just didn't do what I need it to do. But ... it obviously does what *you* need it to do. Thanks though, for telling me my personal experience is wrong.

You're not being lectured or told that your choice was somehow wrong.  "Horses for courses"  and "the right steed for the rider", is what I  said. My post is just to point out that there are alternatives to "more of it = better", even if sometimes more power and energy (and weight) does mean better, as it seems to for you.

And it's also relevant to list some considerations in choosing a light weight or minimalist e-bike type or a heavier and more full-on e-bike type. 

The OP has had an artificial knee installed.  These can be very successful at re-establishng physical abilities, sometimes (often) to a degree better than before the op. (That's why you have such an op, after all). I know three people, personally, who are now able to run and cycle better than they did for a year or three before their new knee(s) were installed and bedded-in. It took them just three months from the op to recover their abilities.

So, whilst a new knee might need more help to cycle in the short term, it's highly likely that it'll enable cycling no different to that possible before the knee went bad. Maybe the better e-bike in such a situation would be one that's more like an ordinary bike (or can be) than an electric moped?  This is not to diss moped-like e-bikes or those who find them the best solution to their own knee or other physical issues.

Not everyone needs the e-bike you need, even if the root cause of both needs happens to be a knee issue.

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As to your admitted dislike of the Fazua bike you tried, would you like to say what it was you disliked, in detail?  This might help the OP in his own choice, by illuminating that he has a similar reason to reject Fazua-type bikes or realising that he doesn't have such a reason and can therefore still consider such a choice along with the others.

AndyIT wrote:

Many thanks lots of useful insights. So far I can't find anywhere to test electric road bikes nearish to me. Seems the more powerful motgors could also be a bet aginst future knee problems/issues and could help one keep cycling for longer.

In reality, the increased torque of a big Bosch motor in an e-bike has little meaningful advantage in terms of going up hills, except you can do it full e-gas for longer. Such motors and their larger batteries tend to serve those who want to put in less effort themselves (for all sorts of legitimate reasons, I hasten to add before getting stomped on again) and/or want to go long distances in one ride without having to recharge the battery or take a spare.

If you're worried that future knee problems are going to be of the sort that will make cycling very difficult yet you still want to travel about in a bike-like fashion, you might be better going true motorbike. But why take the pessimistic view?  Those artificial knees are wunnerful things, as Len the Fish (who has just had two) tells everyone who asks (and everyone who doesn't).

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As you suggest, though, the best buying mode would be to test and compare several e-bike types to see what's what for your personal wants & needs & likes. This is no easy matter but probably the most likely way to achieve such testing would be to ask friends and acquaintances who have e-bikes if you could have a go on theirs.

If you lived in West Wales, I'd happily let you have a go on one of mine, as I have done for two local acquaintances already. Both of them ended up buying Bosch panzer sit-up-and-begs, though. They go everywhere on them at 15.5mph, including past me on the hills ... but I'm parsimonius with the power of mine, not wanting my legs to wither away, see? ;-/

AndyIT wrote:

(snip) Maybe I just need to avoid hub motors as they won't provide sufficient torque. I am partly drawn to the Giant as I have seen one at a good price significantly less than the Fazua systems (though being able to remove the system altogether is a nice feature of the Fazua systems).(snip).  

+Does a Fazua sstem stil provide good assistance if you are cyling slowly?  or does one need to hit a certain cadence for it to provide the full assistance? I have read that some systems ramp up the assitance (even on high power modes) only when the rider is putting out higher cadences?

Here are two url to Fazua pages describing aspects of the Fazua Evation software that allows you to set various power assist parameters to match your own power output, cadence and required "feel" from the motor asistance.

https://fazua.com/en/support/help-center/ride-50-firmware/general/

https://fazua.com/en/support/help-center/ride-50-firmware/maximum-vs-min...

Some figures extracted from the above:

Torque max: FAZUA RIDE 50 EVATION - 55 Nm | FAZUA RIDE 50 TRAIL/STREET 58 Nm
Power max.: FAZUA EVATION - 300 W (mechanical) | FAZUA RIDE 50 TRAIL/STREET - 350 W (mechanical)
Cadence spectrum (opt. efficiency / power): 55-125 crank turns per minute

Unlike a rear hub motor, the bike in which the Fazua (or any) mid drive system is installed allows the motor/gearbox speed to be kept in the best power output range by use of the bike's own gears.

If you want to be able to get the motor to work well even at very low climbing speeds, for example, you can fit your bike with a gear range having a bottom/low gear of 1:1 or less. Even 60rpm in that gear (which will have you going at a very low road speed) will still enable the motor to work at it's optimum torque output for whatever power-assist level you set it at.

The power-assist levels can be chosen from the three "standard" Fazua factory settings (breeze, river, rocket) but the software allows you to tweak those power-assist profiles in all sorts of ways, to make, save and insert (to the motor) whatever kinds of assistance profiles you want up to the maximum (250 watts continuous or even 15 seconds of 350 watts). The way the assist-power is delivered can be set to match your own power outputs and requirements for gradual or much quicker ramp up and down of the assistance.

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Fazua bikes are mosly quite light - a good 5 or 6 kilos less than that Giant and up to 15 kilos less than the bosch-equiped Panzerbikes. As you noticed, you can also take out the motor.battery and put in a "blank" to reduce the bike weight by 3 kilos. making an ordinary unassisted bike.

There are some less expensive Fazua eqipped bikes. The most well-known is the Boardmans:

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/bikes/e-bikes/

which look like a price match to many of the rear hub motored bikes. Vitus (Wiggle) also do a couple of aluminium-framed Fazua bikes that are probably better-made than the Boardmans and currently have 25% off:

https://www.wiggle.com/search?query=Vitus%20e-bike

Personally I like the lighter weight of Fazua bikes and the ability to do without the motor/battery when wanting to suffer a bit. In practice I get around 150km and 2000 metres of ascent out of a single charge; but I often switch off the motor and generally use only the +80 watts setting up long and/or steep hills.

The ladywife gets about 70km and the same ascent from a single charge, as she uses the +140 watt setting on steeper ascents, with the occasional +200 watts for the 'orrible ones. Our average speed for a ride varies between around 20 - 27 kph depending on the route, weather, how much we chatter to each other and how much cake we eat.

AndyIT wrote:

Ideally I would try out bikes but that's very very hard to do (can't find them locally and doubt they would allow a reasonsable test drive) so might just need to just take an educated guess.  

Not suggesting you would necessarily buy from them but if you want to try out an electric bike for a good period Halfords allow you to take a six hour test ride for £101 returnable deposit, see this page.

Tom_77 wrote:

In the UK 250w is the maximum power for an eBike, anything more than that would be classed as a motorcycle or moped. You might have got mixed up between motor power (W) and battery capacity (Wh)?

If you've never ridden an eBike your best bet would be to go to a shop and try a few different ones.

I don't think that's quite true, my MTB has a peak power of 565W and torque of 90Nm and is completely legal, the 250W limit is continuous or nominal rated power, that is average over a period of time. Many e-bikes have a peak greater than that. 

Other than that, I agree, go to a shop and try them out. The place where I bought my MTB from had an open day in the Purbecks, and sent people out on a 20 min loop in the dunes in exchange for photo ID. 

The limit being "250W continuous rated power" seems to be highly open to interpretation. It is in the nature of ebikes that the motor power output is intermittent - you're often coasting or just ticking along, the duty cycle is well below 100%. So whilst the continuous rated limit might be 250W, it seems there is no limit to peak power over a limited, but nevertheless useful, period.