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Footballer-turned-driving instructor Ashley Neal divides opinion with use of horn in overtaking video

Some viewers criticised Neal’s “unnecessary” horn use as he passed two cyclists, but the instructor said that “the horn in this situation is a simple ‘excuse me’… no different than a signal with an indicator if I was passing a car”

Footballer-turned-driving instructor Ashley Neal has divided opinion online after posting a video in which he beeps his car horn at two cyclists while overtaking them.

Neal, the son of European Cup-winning Liverpool full back Phil Neal, regularly posts videos on his website and YouTube channel, which has over 98,000 subscribers, chronicling his experiences as a driver and instructor in the northwest of England

Neal, who runs his own driving school business, has often been praised for his even-handed approach to cyclists on the roads, and last year posted a video analysing an incident in which a cyclist was knocked off their bike by a motorist, an act the instructor claimed was “done purposefully”.

Last week’s video, titled ‘Cycling 2 Abreast and Overtaking’, caused a stir in the comments of the video itself and on the road.cc forum, after some viewers claimed that Neal was criticising the cyclists riding two-abreast before “unnecessarily” beeping his horn at them as he passed.

As he approaches the cyclists in the video, Neal says: “Do they need to be taking up a primary position and riding two-abreast at the moment? Yes.

“But I think this is going to cause issues with the new updates to the Highway Code. And that’s if some cyclists choose to ignore the other advice which has been updated to say that they should move back to single file to allow faster moving traffic to overtake.”

On the subject of riding two abreast, the revised Highway Code states: “You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.”

> Highway Code changes: ‘What about cyclists, or do the rules not apply to them?’

Neal then questioned whether the cyclists’ decision to carry on riding two abreast prevented him “from giving them a proper two metres space on this faster speed limit”, before answering “well, it does”.

The Highway Code updates advise that drivers should “leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds”, and only explicitly notes that two metres’ distance should be maintained when passing pedestrians or horses on the road.

“Just because you can ride two abreast,” Neal continued, “doesn’t mean you should be doing it always. You should still appreciate the flow from other people.”

Neal then proceeds to pass the cyclists, doing so at a safe distance in the opposite lane, sounding his horn as he begins the manoeuvre. After the overtake, Neal told his viewers to give cyclists “as much space and care as you would do overtaking a car…  A little beep of the horn is key, no problems, do it safely.”

> Driver knocks cyclist off bike on purpose – then claims she used to be police officer

While some viewers took to the YouTube comments section and the road.cc forum to express their disgruntlement at Neal’s preference for the cyclists to have ridden single file (though he acknowledged that he wouldn’t have been able to pass in any case), most of the resulting controversy surrounding the video centred on his use of his horn.

One road.cc reader wrote: “I don't agree with his use of the horn. Imagine if every car that passed you 'warned you of their presence' with a 'friendly' toot.

“In my view, the only reason to warn someone of your presence is when you think they might need to take some evasive action or look like they might cross your path.”

Another said: “I don't know what a ‘friendly’ toot sounds like, I cannot remember the last time I heard one.  It might be some quaint throwback to the golden age of motoring, but in my experience it just doesn't happen these days.

“Therefore, any use of the horn will get my hackles and probably my middle finger up. If you're driving behind a cyclist, however you use your horn will make them jump, which doesn't seem advisable to me.”

> Driving instructors have their say on the Highway Code – “a recipe for disaster” or “not a big deal”? 

Some viewers on YouTube agreed:

“I'm not sure on beeping before you overtake. If someone beeps me when I'm cycling I assume they are highly offended by my existence. If you force a cyclist to take their eye off the road ahead and look around, especially if they are alongside someone, there is a chance they will swerve enough to cause an issue.”

“I really disagree with the use of the horn in this situation. I know why Ashley is using it, but there are very few road users who consistently use the horn like he does. When I am cycling and hear a horn being sounded from a car behind me, I generally assume that an accident or near miss is about to occur and take defensive actions.”

However, others were more forgiving of the ‘friendly toot’:

“In my opinion the reason for riding two abreast is to get the cars to slow down before overtaking thus reducing potential damage (to me). Once they slow down I move into single file as soon as I think it's safe to overtake.

“Very occasionally I don't notice the car behind and a friendly toot is much appreciated. I'm ashamed to admit that aggressive use of the horn just winds me up and the move to single file is much delayed as a result.”

“I'm not totally against a friendly horn toot if a driver thinks I may genuinely not be aware of them. However, if I haven't already heard you coming, then even a friendly toot is likely to be alarming.

“So if you're going to do it, I think you need to leave a pause before you then overtake, to account for the cyclist jumping or turning to look – don't toot while you're mid-overtake.”

Neal took to the comments section himself to respond to those criticising him for his horn use, telling one viewer to “go read the Highway Code”.

“The horn in this situation is a simple ‘excuse me’,” he wrote. “It’s no different than a signal with an indicator if I was passing a car. If someone might benefit, it’s needed. It’s really sad that the true use of the horn is lost on so many.”

Rule 112 of the Highway Code states that the car horn should only be used “while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively.”

According to Neal, “due to their poor positioning and not going back to single file, [the use of the horn] was absolutely necessary. It’s only the poor perception of what the horn should be used for that’s the problem.

“It’s a non-aggressive way of saying “excuse me” and so many cyclists have problems with it… These cyclists were just riding for themselves and did nothing to work together as they should.”

Ryan joined road.cc in December 2021 and since then has kept the site’s readers and listeners informed and enthralled (well at least occasionally) on news, the live blog, and the road.cc Podcast. After boarding a wrong bus at the world championships and ruining a good pair of jeans at the cyclocross, he now serves as road.cc’s senior news writer. Before his foray into cycling journalism, he wallowed in the equally pitiless world of academia, where he wrote a book about Victorian politics and droned on about cycling and bikes to classes of bored students (while taking every chance he could get to talk about cycling in print or on the radio). He can be found riding his bike very slowly around the narrow, scenic country lanes of Co. Down.

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168 comments

Avatar
Argos74 | 2 years ago
3 likes

Trying to remember the last 'friendly' toot I received. Nope. Failed. Lots of 'get the [heck] out of my way' because I'm in primary or on the offside of the lane coming up to a pinch point, turning right, overtaking a slower cyclist, or avoiding the door zone.

So however well-intentioned, Mr Neal is at best going to get the finger. I got ears. I can hear cars behind me.

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Gkam84 | 2 years ago
4 likes

I see no problem here, it was a simple toot, I'm here and am about to pass, he is right, if they ride like that, he can't give them sufficient space, even while passing across the other side of the road. 

We use this in professional racing, tooting to let riders know we are passing, as you'll hear all the time on the TV when cars and/or motorbikes are passing riders, it's constant toots of the horn. So one toot isn't going to do any harm. He stayed behind waiting for a good road position to pass, so I don't think any cyclists can have a problem. Of course, there are always ars***les out there that will make an issue of it....

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Rendel Harris replied to Gkam84 | 2 years ago
4 likes

It's not really a question of whether you see no problem, it's a question of whether a professional instructor who is supposedly showing drivers how to behave should be clearly breaking the HC rules regarding use of the horn. A case can be made that perhaps drivers should give a warning of an overtake, but the fact remains that at the moment using your horn to say "excuse me" (a.k.a. get out of my way I'm coming through) is not permitted.

What happens in professional racing on closed roads is, of course, entirely irrelevant to this situation.

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HoarseMann replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
2 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

A case can be made that perhaps drivers should give a warning of an overtake, but the fact remains that at the moment using your horn to say "excuse me" (a.k.a. get out of my way I'm coming through) is not permitted.

I think that's what bothered me about this particular situation. Ashley felt the riders were at fault for not following good lane discipline (debatable), he felt there wasn't enough space for it to be a safe pass, so he passed anyway with a beep of his horn.
 

But if a car was sitting in lane 3 on the motorway and failing to move left and follow good lane discipline (clearly wrong), would he decide to undertake the vehicle, but mitigate this danger by tooting his horn as he did so? Probably not.

I have driven in Spain where a toot before a car overtakes is commonplace, but this then makes horn use more accepted and the cities have noticeably more cars beeping horns when they're just stuck in traffic or someone is slow to move off at the lights.

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quiff replied to HoarseMann | 2 years ago
1 like

HoarseMann wrote:

I have driven in Spain where a toot before a car overtakes is commonplace, but this then makes horn use more accepted and the cities have noticeably more cars beeping horns when they're just stuck in traffic or someone is slow to move off at the lights.

I remember when travelling many years ago, either in China or Sri Lanka, it was customary to beep before overtaking. It also seemed to be customary to overtake at all times. Quite loud. 

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wycombewheeler replied to Gkam84 | 2 years ago
1 like

Gkam84 wrote:

I see no problem here, it was a simple toot, I'm here and am about to pass, he is right, if they ride like that, he can't give them sufficient space, even while passing across the other side of the road. 

looked like enough space to me, how much does he have to give?

1.5m is fine, he was not driving at high speed.

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Legin | 2 years ago
2 likes

If he was not confident that the cyclists knew he was there then use f the horn in this way is perfectly reasonable. I tend to appreciate motorists doing that. Unfortunatley many seem to think the use of the horn as a warning device is eqivalent to GBH or a personal assault on their parentage.

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Jetmans Dad replied to Legin | 2 years ago
3 likes

Legin wrote:

 Unfortunatley many seem to think the use of the horn as a warning device is eqivalent to GBH or a personal assault on their parentage.

That is usually informed by experience. My experience is that drivers overtaking properly don't feel the need to use their horn as they do so, whereas those who do use the horn tend to be the ones who skim my elbow with their mirror. 

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eburtthebike | 2 years ago
2 likes

I'm with Neil.  A quick beep like that is standard practice in many European countries when a driver is overtaking a cyclist, and it is useful, once you get used to it.  It is used to say "I'm coming through, I know you're there, and I'm giving you room" in a polite manner with no aggression.

I have to say, in that situation, I'd probably have singled out to let the cars past.

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espressodan | 2 years ago
3 likes

The problem with Neil's videos is that he is trying to establish his brand as 'driver education'. While he's a qualified driving instructor, he is not entitled to make policy. I've watched his videos and in general, however reasonable he sounds, most have a strong dose of 'driver opinion' masquerading as education. His 'cars emerging from a side road' video is a good example, yes the junction is poor but at the end of the day if the vehicles had been doing that across the carriageway of the road rather then the bike path I think he's have had a very different opinion.

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Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
6 likes

The Highway Code says the horn should only be used to warn others of your presence. An "excuse me", however politely intended, means move out of my way; it's a warning of your intention to pass and an instruction to cede. It sounds as though it's Mr Neal who needs to "go read the Highway Code" here. Someone waiting for a safe opportunity to pass that respects the guidance of the Highway Code doesn't need to use their horn.

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anagallis_arvensis | 2 years ago
2 likes

The use of the horn is not wrong in the situation but I question its utility, what can the cyclists do with the information, if the answer is nothing what's the point?

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jestriding | 2 years ago
1 like

English road laws/recommendations are a bit weird.  The legislation here is a bit clearer:  https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM30...

(5) A person must not, at any time,—

(a) use a warning device on a motor vehicle otherwise than as a reasonable traffic warning;

I used to give a finger to someone using their horn unreasonably but some grey haired old guy took offence and drove me off the road with his car; now I just fill in an online "report a bad driver" form.

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HoarseMann | 2 years ago
0 likes

Whilst I don't agree with his horn use here, I do think Ashley Neal is doing a good job in general with his driver education YT channel.

He is also very active in the comments, which I think is nice to see, even if his replies are sometimes a little, ahem, 'edgy'!

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Hirsute | 2 years ago
2 likes
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quiff replied to Hirsute | 2 years ago
0 likes

Ah yes, but why write your own articles when you can get the readers of your website to write the content for you?

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Simon_MacMichael replied to quiff | 2 years ago
3 likes

quiff wrote:

Ah yes, but why write your own articles when you can get the readers of your website to write the content for you?

Well, it proves we read the Forum crying

Seriously though, we do sometimes see threads there started by readers that we think deserve a wider audience, so we will do a story on it - and, as we've done near the top here, we've acknowledged the forum thread and provided a link to it.

And yes, on those articles we will usually quote some of those forum comments, in this case 140 words out of a total word count of approximately 1,200.

The rest of the article, as you'll know since you've read it, provides background and context as well as quoting Neal and some of the responses on YouTube.

Hope that clarifies.

 

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quiff replied to Simon_MacMichael | 2 years ago
1 like

All fair points, sorry for being snotty.

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